Land a High-Paying Tech Career Without a Tech Background

everything that I was taught about following the system. Get good grades in school, you're rewarded, you go to a good university. I followed pretty much the conventional pathway. Then I land a good graduate job. And I'm like, this isn't it. I remember mentioning to my manager one time, can I leave a bit earlier for football? He looked at me like, you need to grow up. A lot of people want to be doctor engineer. Without knowing what the reality of the job is, and doctors are telling me, don't do this. We're struggling. I decided this isn't for me. Just getting an engineering degree. What is the shortest way for me to please my parents? A three-year bachelor's degree. I'll give them 3 years of my life. Yeah, take it. I ran one of the largest nonprofit Muslim and tech communities called Dejaneers for years. The main disparity between now and then is monetized and the results are night and day. This was actually one of the most heartbreaking things because I actually held myself back from monetizing things for years cuz I questioned my integrity. The way I learned that to help people, I need to charge them. I learned it the hard way. I spent a lot of money out of my pocket in a particular event and it was free. There was 40 people signed up, two people turned up. A lot of people ask me how do I get into tech? Always they want an oversimplified answer. You're not doing enough work. That's the simple answer. So if you become friends with the Quran, Allah subhana t would preserve your journey. Now he also says you do good acts Allah will give you a good life. God almighty he doesn't owe you anything. So it doesn't owe you this luxury or this other part of the spectrum but you are guaranteed goodness. So the person who connects himself to Allah subhana wa ta'ala will see goodness in whatever he gets. >> What is your blueprint? Hello everyone and welcome to the Baraka Blueprint podcast. This is the podcast where we talk about the balance between faith and focus between Dean and Dunya. Most importantly, the fact that we as Muslims owe it to ourselves and owe it to our um and owe it to our community to be the best possible version of ourselves. I'm your host, Ibraim Sharif, and I'm reminded by the hadith Those who are not grateful to people are not grateful to God. And Allah says in the Quran, if you were to try and count God's blessing singular, you won't be able to enumerate them plural. >> Meaning that the one blessing from Allah subhana wa ta'ala in itself, you can't even count it. >> Yeah. And I owe it to myself to say it has been an absolute honor. And it is it is an absolute honor to say that today I I have a guest, our brother Murad, our brother tech with Murad. Where do we begin? Subhan Allah. A brother that I'm inspired by on so many levels. uh a brother that I that I relate to in terms of when I watch his content and when I watch what he provides to his community, I am reminded by questions that many people ask, especially when it comes to landing jobs in tech and especially when people relate that to their own personal journeys in their hij brother Allah that has an award-winning school community, has won the school games, a brother that coaches fellow brothers both from non-technical backgrounds and from junior mid levels to reach seniority and to upskill themselves in the tech industry and to land highpaying tech jobs and to break into the tech industry. But subhan Allah, another thing we're going to add today is Tech with Bad is a guest in the Baraka Blueprint podcast. I'm so hype brokum. I mean, bro, it all started from a Tik Tok live. >> Yeah, >> literally. >> Literally. >> I And how it started is because I I I had a collab with American in Dubai. >> Okay. >> That's how I got to know you. That's how I saw your content. >> Nice. >> Uh I think you had curlier hair at the time. >> I had longer hair, >> by the way. It suited you very well. But this fresh fade suits you as well. >> And I remember I was like, let me just let me just request >> to enter the live haka. And it happened. And subhan Allah and I'm not trying to um push you above levels that Allah subh has set for us as individuals. But bro, I really loved your authenticity and your hospitality and how welcoming you were. And bro, imagine the surprise that randomly in the super heat of Dubai, we're playing football and I see someone man marking me like Gary Medel with these tackles and I hear the the polite and I see I stuck with Morad. Yo, >> bro, I do apologize cuz I'm a bit competitive when it comes to sports. I was man marking you before the salam came in. I was thinking, yo, this guy, I can't let him overlap me on the wing. I got a barking before the >> You know what? You never even have to worry about that because my stamina is that of Phil Jones back when he never ran. So don't worry, Habibi. You can catch up to me. >> Listen, I'm not techers with Murad. >> Brother Murad, may Allah subhana t bless you, bless your path to success, bless bless your wealth, and bless your health. uh as someone who is inspired by your story Murad and as someone who loves for his siblings in Islam what he loves for himself. I want the Baraka blueprint community and listeners to learn from your story. So the first question that I want to ask you is what is one incident, one thing, one story, one moment in your life that has happened that shifted your story and shifted your path. >> I have two moments. >> Oo, go ahead. Double the >> um there's one that's more career orientated. >> So when I initially graduated university, um I was working in a rental car company. graduated with a mechanical engineering degree. Everything that I was taught about following the system the conventional way is get good grades in school, you're rewarded, you go to a the conventional pathway that a lot of people idealize. In fact, why a lot of our parents migrated to these countries in the first place to provide us with this opportunity and I land a good graduate job. Um, and I'm like this isn't it. This isn't what is this? I remember I was working 13hour days a lot of the time and I was working sometimes six days a week and I was traveling. I was waking up 6:00 a.m. every day getting home 7:00 p.m. That was my rough sort of routine. And I was like I remember mentioning to my manager one time, can I leave a bit earlier for football? And he was like he looked at me like you need to grow up. Like he looked at me, he's like this is what being an adult's about. I was like, >> "What?" >> I was like, "I have a 6:30 football session. You're telling me I need to leave the office at at 6:37?" I was like, "I what if I finish my work earlier, right?" I had this conscious mentality. If I do extra work, get it done early, you know? Can I leave? No. Like autonomy from my life was gone through this traditional corporate job. >> Okay, >> which again this shows how ignorant we are when we follow through the system. We don't even know what the other side looks like. A lot of people want to be doctor, mahandis, engineer, all of this stuff without knowing what the reality of the job is. In fact, that's another story in which I did work experience uh during my years in college in which I avoided doing medicine. I I literally saw the the life that they were living. I was like and doctors are telling me don't do this. Our pay is not good. We're struggling this NHS this. And I was like >> in the UK is that like that >> in the UK? Yeah. >> Really, >> bro? It's horrible. There's doctors unemployed in the UK right now. It was on the news. what we once deemed as the most secure job ever. There's doctors struggling striking. They went on strike in the UK. >> Doctors went on strike. You know what that means? When a doctor is going on strike when that is insane. >> Not nurses. >> Not doctors. Yes. which shows that they're at the point where they're willing to compromise patients and and their health and things that things that were entire motivators because of how bad their financial situation is. >> That being said, I decided, you know what? This isn't for me. Went down the route of just getting an engineering degree. I was like, I'll please my parents. What is the shortest way for me to please my parents? A three-year bachelor's degree. I was like, I'll give them three years of my life. Yeah, take it. It's fun. It take three years. Yeah. I finished my bachelor's degree. I was like, "Okay, I'm I'm done." I was like, "If medicine is six years, I don't want to sacrifice six years to please them. Let me sacrifice three." It was a numbers game at that point. And I was very much indifferent with what I wanted to do. I didn't mind. I graduate. I'm working in this job. And then, you know, my manager is telling me I need to grow up now because I'm I'm shocked. I lose all this autonomy. Is this what life? >> How dare you go to football? >> How dare you go? I was sitting down at home thinking, is this what my life is until my 60s where I retire? >> I can't go football. That being said, um, a customer walked in. >> A customer walked in that rented a expensive Range Rover for around 3 weeks to a month and the figures were already ridiculous. The day rate is very high on this sort of vehicle. >> And I was just talking to this customer. we were getting along and uh I was like, "Oh." And then he mentioned something absurd to me that completely just blew my mind. Which was incredibly simple. He mentioned that he's like, "Oh." After he sat down with me for like an hour and a half, he's like, "Actually, I need to get back to work." So I was like, "Okay, cool. What building are you working in? You know, are you working in one of the corporate offices around here? You know, are you on your lunch break?" He's like, "No." It's like, "What?" I was like, "Okay, how are you working?" He's like, "Yeah, I work from home." I said, "Work from home? What does this person do?" I already knew he must be earning a lot of money to take out this really nice car for this prolonged period of time. But then he's also got this autonomy where he's able to come in while he's working and just take out the rental car. >> The flexibility is blowing my mind now because I can't go football, right? You know, it's like I'm like, "What's going on here? What job does he have that I've never heard of?" And then he's like, "Oh, I'm a software engineer." I'm like, "You guys get to work from you guys make that sort of money." And it was a very sort of gatekept industry a bit. Um cuz he was telling me he was making £700 a day. He was contracting on that sort of day rate. That sort of money just blew my mind. I was like, "So, he's like, "Yeah, you know, I took this lower contract. Sometimes I'm on £800, 900 a day." I thought you had to be a a crazy entrepreneur to touch those sort of daily figures. you're telling me there's there's a career that could pay me that. He's like, "Yeah." I was like, "Oh, you must have went to university for years. You must have done a PhD." That was my initial thoughts. Like, he's like, "No, you could do it, too." I said, "What do you mean I could do it, too?" I was like, "I I didn't study computer science. You could learn." I was like, I literally was like, "Okay, please." you know, connected with him on LinkedIn, messaged him multiple times. And the insane part about about this is I actually made a LinkedIn post not that long ago where this person DM'd me out of nowhere. I haven't spoken to him for years. He's like, "Oh, hi. I don't think you remember me, but I walked in that day and the the curiosity that you showed, um the interest that you showed, the follow through is like, you know, that was a and when I got that LinkedIn message, I almost cried. Wah, it was the first time in a long time I almost cried cuz I don't like the things that I achieve, I often look back and >> Mhm. >> it was just part of the process. Like I don't even acknowledge where I was. I don't even deep that I was waking up at 6:00 a.m. driving to a job that I hated and doing an hour drive back and I did I wasn't able to go football. I wasn't able to now like I wasn't even able to equate that and I actually made it happen. I didn't just talk about it. I sent him my CV at the time on email things like that. He's like look learn these things and it wasn't any handouts. He didn't give me a job. I don't have a handout story. I don't have this miraculous story where he turned around. He's like oh I see myself in you. Here's a job. No, he did give me some pointers. I did take initiative. I did start learning things. I did start looking into cloud, DevOps, these sort of niches that he was mentioning. And yeah, alhamdulillah, that's how I ended up 3 months later um landing a job through aggressively applying. In fact, I remember the day where I had to take interviews during my lunch break, right? Cuz how else do you take interviews while you're in a job and you're trying to career transition? What other times you have to take interviews? Unless you're going to call a siki or do it during your lunchtime. That's the only avenue. I think people I've really been through this journey. I understand every pain point that someone thinks that they're going through. I'm not out of touch. I understand all of this. And silly me left a note on my manager's table cuz I had to take it from my manager's office. I was like, "Oh, I have a phone call. Can I?" He's like, "Yeah, you could do your lunch in there and take a phone call." I was obviously so flustered. There's work to be done. I just left the room and I left a little note there and I was taking notes whilst I was on the phone call in the interview. My manager sees >> DevOps engineer interesting cloud AW all these technologies I'm listing about the company what they use and why I'm motivated for the role and I've written notes down. I was really meticulous cuz I was like even if I don't get this job I want feedback so I could improve. my manager, he just sends me a picture on WhatsApp. He just sends me a picture later on that evening. Um, it wasn't that evening. It was when I got the job offer. It was actually when I got the job offer and I told him I was like, "I have some news to tell you." I was messaging him. He sent me that picture. D, you knew this all. He knew I was interviewing. He's like, "Bro, it's okay. you know, I don't judge you, but I think you've been a great asset. You know, in that three months, by the way, I was in a sales focused role. I got the top five sales in the whole of the UK. >> So, I was like very driven and it wasn't like I I lacked in certain areas. I was very aggressive and I wanted to always make the most out of my circumstances, right? So, >> when I was like, okay, this is the ceiling that I'm kind of getting to already. This is the trajectory. I want more autonomy over my life. Money is great, but autonomy is even better. So when I realized, oh my gosh, I could get a job that allows me to work from home, spend lunch time, and other times where I'm chilling with my family, things like that. Alhamdulillah, I was living a dream for that period of my life. When I when I made that transition, it wasn't always about the money. Um, I think money was just a byproduct of the skills and the value provide for companies. So a couple of characteristics that I hear is follow through, be serious, be thirsty for knowledge, be attentive, take notes, maybe not leave them at your manager's desk, but take notes at least >> notes >> or at least have a manager that is cool about it. >> Um, make the best out of your circumstances. So if I understand correctly those are characteristics that let's say someone who does not have that background who wants to land a highpaying job as such >> those are characteristics that we would say are crucial for that is my understanding correct >> yes >> what other characteristics would you add to that and why >> another big characteristic that I've noticed is entitlement A lot of people think that >> what do you mean? >> A lot of people often are entitled to the end product. >> Okay. Meaning what? >> So this is what causes them to actually fail. >> So they'll let's say someone's watching this video. There's probably a set of people right now at home are like, "Oh, Murad did this within 3 months. I can do the same." And if they don't do it within 3 months, they'd quit. They don't know. >> Okay. Look at him. They don't know that I would have been willing to do that for a year. I would have been willing to do that for two years until I made it work. That's that's what people don't understand that you often need to do an unreasonable amount of hard work where failure is an unreasonable outcome. My students that have landed jobs, alhamdulillah, them not landing jobs would have been a very unreasonable outcome for the work that they put in. So putting that ridiculous level of work where the byproduct is there and of course you should have that you should have that of course it's all written but you can't think in the mentality of oh I'm going to put this work and >> whatever happens happens. Yes. >> That's not going to work, honey. >> Because the thing is I've never been able to put it in words, but I completely understand what you mean because >> it seems as well that when people see these, maybe this is the wrong usage of the terminology, so excuse the barrier of language, but these Disney stories and the Cinderella stories when they see them for someone, for example, three months, this is the timeline that Allah gave that person. >> Yes. And at the end of the day, even though we we learn in the Quran everything is written and everything is written to its particular intended ends. >> But at the same time, we learned that you tie the knot for your camel and then after that comes the >> There is some work that is required by you. >> A lot of work. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because you got to deserve the blessing. >> But people live vicariously through people now. Meaning, >> so if they see and watch this video now, it's as if they've almost achieved it. >> Oh, Morad did three months. I'm going to do what he does and I'm going to achieve it. Not knowing that there's so many nuances to your own path. >> Like maybe you have more responsibilities that don't allow you to spend your even maybe you're not willing to sacrifice what I did. You know, if you do the maths, I was working 13 14 hours. The window period that I had to upskill and learn, a lot of people wouldn't do it. That's their dinner last bedtime. They're home at 7:00 p.m. They want to have dinner. They want to unwind. It's 9:00 p.m. They got to be up at 6:00, 5:30. A lot of people aren't doing the >> We put up our own obstacles. Yeah. >> If we think about it. Yes. >> Because the thing is that >> so my story is very very different. >> But the the common denominator here, I can relate to it a thousand%. Because I have lived both sides. >> Yeah. I've lived the one side where I have been chasing uh job after job, task after task, uh be it warehouse hair or postal office hair or customer support hair or supply teaching there >> and putting all of these hours but also subhan Allah having the time to learn graphic design or to learn other skills. But I've also been in situations where I've had alhamdulillah a stable a stable employment or comfortable times let's say >> and a lot of time on my plate but do nothing with it whatsoever. Okay, I'll be >> because I what what do I what I tell myself is and I I put myself sometimes in situations where I feel sorry for myself, you know, >> and this was a big mistake. >> Alhamdulillah, something I'm we're always working on ourselves, Yanni, but I would say, "Oh, but I need this time to to to to wind down like you said, and then you you you go scroll flick after flick, film after film, it's it's crazy." >> People do that because >> it's easy to fall into that. >> It's easy. And I think it stems from like comfort is very dangerous. I think your environment could enable you to be comfortable. You know, I remember when I wanted to start what I was doing, my program, my communities and things like that. You know, a lot of people, oh, you know, you're already doing enough or you're already doing a lot or you already work really hard or you know, if I wanted to to increase my salary and get a new job, people be like, oh, you're already making a lot of money. Why do you want a new job for, you know, all of these things that often could hold you back and create that sense of comfort as if, you know, that guilt for wanting more, it is very, very dangerous. And I kind of came to terms with uh I'm not that sort of person, right? I know myself when I go home at night, I can't sit comfortable with myself knowing that I'm doing the bare minimum. It it will eat me up. Even if I'm making 500 grand a year or whatever it might be, whatever salaries that people might think, if I know I could be doing a lot more in these areas and I'm just watching Netflix and scrolling on my phone and this is what I'm doing. You know that that's a dark place when you're alone cuz no one knows you. >> No one everyone thinks they work hard. Everyone thinks they apply themselves when you go home. And that was another pivotal point that goes on to the second story and it was a drive home. >> Okay. I was regularly meeting up with a group of people, friends, friends of mine, regularly spending time with them, just wasting time, having a lot of conversations, having a lot of ideas, not implementing nothing, getting that dopamine boost with your friends. But if you ask them, oh, have you registered that business idea you were talking about, you know, nothing's been done, right? Is is that sort of environment, which I feel like a lot of people are trapped in that they don't have that that environment that pushes them and actually does things. Everyone has great ideas. The world is full of them. Implementation very little. But I was driving home and I was like this going here, meeting these people, getting a dopamine kick, thinking I'm doing anything with my life. I was like, this journey home's dark. This journey home or I'm driving home. I was like, I've got work in the morning. Oh, it's it's 1:2 a.m. What am I doing with my life? Like, what am I I could get away with this. I work from home. I could wake up last minute. I could get my laptop out. I could and I was in a rut for for quite a period of time and um I was constantly enabled cuz I'm on a really good salary working tech. Oh, you're flex. Oh, come meet me for lunch. Let's do this. And I was like I'm disgusted with myself. Like absolut like I felt like the most disgusting person ever. And it doesn't even correlate to a lot of people's minds cuz they would look at me at that point, you've achieved everything that I want. I felt absolutely disgusted by myself. And I was driving hard. I I can't do this. And I had to learn to say no. That was a pivotal point for me where I learned to say no to a lot of things and block out the noise and just really focus on on applying myself to something. You know, even if I had a productive day and things weren't shown, at least no one regrets having a productive day. I've never seen it. Have you ever had a productive day where you're like, "Oh, I hate the fact that I woke up." It might be horrible at the time. Huh? >> I reminisce them. >> You know, no one at the time it might be difficult to do. You've constantly done multiple things that are difficult in your day. You woke up early. You went to the gym. You then went to work. You then came home. You then started reading up on this. You then started initiating this. And each period of time it felt hard. But when you go to your pillow, when your head touches your pillow, alhamdulillah, I did all you've never regretted it. But you might go out, have fun, and be get home, you're like, >> it's not instantly the >> I should have done that or I should have done that. And and that regret kicks in and it it happened to another moment I want to kind of talk about was a friend of mine where >> I was like to him, "Oh, let's go out after we were in the gym." I was like, "Let's go out after. Let's go out to eat, whatever." And he's like, "I mentioned a nice place to go to." He's like, "No." I said, "What?" He's like, "What?" He's like, "No, I can't do that at this moment in time." I said, "What do you mean?" He's like, "I don't deserve it." And I was like, "And this person's a successful person." Like, it's not like he doesn't have the money. It's none of those sort of limiting factors that traditionally will hold a normal person back. Oh, I can't afford the nice restaurant. I can't afford this. It was simply like, I don't deserve it. I wouldn't be able to go to somewhere nice knowing that there's things I need to do and I haven't earned it. So that is a really it was a really powerful thing of learning that you need to make sacrifices to actually get to the places where you need to be. >> It sounds like there is a lot of self-discipline that is involved and ultimately the concept of muhasaba is going to be very important. Accountability >> accountability >> I love that word. Muhasaba is something that is even being taught when in the olden days of the of seeking classical knowledge something that even is taught in today's modern universities >> in the Islamic world and also another concept of some sort of a disciplinary action of consequences. You're actually reading my mind cuz you said it to yourself. >> I was just sitting here and I was read like the both words that I was thinking about wall before you started talking was accountability and then consequences. >> Subhan Allah. >> How are connected >> and how and how I actually generate these environments. >> Because you can live a life where you're not held accountable by anyone in a lot of ways other than Allah. You know, a lot of people could be in a very good position financially. who's there to check them, you know, or you could be doing well in areas and and I create an environment of accountability where I have friends that, you know, call me out on things, right? I keep a circle that we hold each other accountable to things. I create consequences. I even hold myself accountable to things. I create punishments. It might sound psychotic, but I would create punishments for things. So, for example, before I left to get here for this podcast, I told myself that if I turn up late, I'm going to pay for the podcast entirely. Why did I do that? Right? It's not that it's it's just to have consequences because if you don't have those consequences, for me it's a big motivator to make sure I'm in check. And also, I don't want to develop a relationship with my subconscious that I'm a liar. Right? If you miss a certain little thing, oh, take out the bins. I'm not going to do it. That little thing is transferable to when you want to go to the gym. Oh, I didn't go today. I'll go tomorrow. You're developing a relationship with your subconscious that you're a liar. What's the consequence you didn't go gym today? What is it? If you because you if you don't acknowledge the immediate thing of I'm not in shape or I need to get my health better. If you're not acknowledging these immediate things or long term cuz that immediate gratification is what we all love, right? We love it. You know, if if we could lift a weight and get it rip shape today and six-pack, we do it right now. >> Count me in. >> You know, but it's that long-term gratification is often hard to appreciate. now doing those creating those consequences and that that and bro it was like it was a game changer for me and I do it in my mind. It's really weird. I've never actually vocalized it. I just do it to myself where I'll be like okay I'm going to do this. If I don't do this there's this consequence and like some people find it weird cuz why there's no need for you to do that. like there is because that is the reason why I build resounding trust in myself that I am the person who I am. That's how I build confidence, right? Consistently turning up and doing the things that I say I'm going to do will build a lot of self-confidence in yourself. It's not a final goal. It's not a final achievement. It's those intricate steps throughout the journey. That's what helped me a lot. >> Subhan Allah. And I the only thing I would do for I would be able to do from this and to to just bounce off ideas from you and while I won't be able to add much to this I could maybe echo something. I think subhan Allah when we don't hold ourselves accountable and we when when we don't have a clear guideline of disciplinary consequences should we not stick to our own word for example tardiness or not performing certain tasks on time and not reaching milestones >> I think we I think we risk end up being in a situation where we don't respect ourselves because I'll give you an example Murad, this is the second time I speak with you face to face. >> I could easily say that honestly if I didn't respect you, I wouldn't value this time. I wouldn't prepare. >> I really wouldn't care about as a matter of fact, I would really not care about making everything around this nice and structured and extract your value because I don't respect the value that you have. As a matter of fact, maybe I don't even see the value that you give. And you can already imagine what that dynamic would look like. And you would directly think that if this guy doesn't value my time, wa I have so much better things to do and you you will go and attain other value and like take it from somewhere else. I'm thinking imagine if imagine if we did that with ourselves or people that let's say because I'm not going to say people I'm going to say myself because I was multiple multiple times in situations where I've set goals. >> I've had milestones disregarded them again because one feels sorry for themselves for whatever reason. I I can eas I can think subhan Allah that you know what maybe I actually didn't respect the outcome that I wanted to have >> really and >> this I think is what happens when when you don't hold yourself accountable but >> skin in the game >> I create skin in the game >> what do you mean by that >> by creating consequences it adds skin to the game >> so okay If, for example, uh, as I said, the turning up late example to things or things like that, I could actually get away with it. You know, there's there's no skin in the game. Okay, I turned up late. You know, you're probably still going to be very kind, very respectful. You know, even though, you know, you turned up on time, you know, if I turned up 15 minutes late, you are going to continue to do the podcast most likely, right? Very few people are going to be like, "Oh, we're not doing this. Go home." you know often creating that skin in the game where it makes you turn up and it makes you act accordingly helps a lot. So I try and translate that in a lot of avenues um even across my business even across helping others I try and ensure there's skin in the game in both parties and this is another thing right when it comes to offering services uh when it comes to my business having skin in the game both ways really helps a simple way people have a have skin in the game is money seen it firsthand I ran one I I ran one of the largest nonprofit Muslim in tech communities called engineers for years the main disparity between now and then is some people is people pay now it's monetized and the results are night and day right night and day in the most competitive market you know if I was to run an event now that is paid everyone turns up if I run a free event I have actually this was actually one of the most heartbreaking things because I actually held myself back from monetizing things for years cuz I questioned my integrity I'm like am I doing it for the right reasons if I'm charging people all of these thoughts you know I want to genuinely help people >> subhan Allah The way I learned that to help people I need to charge them. I learned it the hard way. You know, I spent a lot of money out of my pocket in a particular event. There was 40 people signed up. Two people turned up. Two people turned up from those that signed up. And it was free. People just booked tickets online. I got a venue. Iworked with the right people. I made it happen. And all of this stuff managed to get sponsored, managed to do this, managed to do. Two people turned up and I was like, >> "Subhan Allah." Now, of course, you could dive into the nuances or maybe the marketing wasn't that great or whatever people want to talk. >> You know what I'm interested in is what did you do with that? Any Okay, you had many people signed up. Two people turned up. >> Okay. What happened? What did you do? >> It I still ran it. I still carried on. I ran the workshop. >> Why? >> But I because I didn't know when they were going to turn up. I didn't know if they were running late, bro. I was there thinking the show must go on. You know, >> I love your mind. I was like, I was like, look, the show must go on. I'm going to deliver this and if there's two people here that are going to sit and gain value, I'm going to sit and give them the value that they turned off. >> And then that was the moment where I turned to people around me and I said, I'm never doing a free again, a free event again. There is no way. It doesn't look good on you. People don't understand the the skin in the game, right? They had no skin in the game. It was a free ticket they booked online, right? If they don't turn up, oh, you know, I haven't lost any money. Some people don't care, right? For me, what was my skin in the game when they didn't turn up? Damaged relationships with people for sponsorships. I didn't look it. It looked very bad. All of these different elements. So then I realized there has to be skin in the game from both parties. There has to be. And I actually ran a similar event two weeks later and I charged for it £15 a ticket. And that was just as a qualifier just to make sure people turn up. And even those that weren't able to turn up, they had the courtesy to message. They had the courtesy to message. Those few people that didn't. They said, "Oh, you know, gave me heads up cuz they want a refund. Can someone else get my ticket? Can someone cuz this is an opportunity cost for other people that might want to turn up as well, right? We have a set number of people. Oh, could you offer there's other people on the waiting list? Could you off?" >> If it was free, they would have never messaged. They would have never asked for a refund. >> That was packed out and it was amazing. Every single person turned. In fact, there was extra people waiting at the door if there's a spot. >> Happy to pay for their spot. And that's when I noticed skin in the game is incredibly powerful to hold yourself accountable from both parties. Even the people in my program, I guarantee you they're going to hate me saying this, but if I raise the price, results will probably increase. not not doing any logistical change. If I just doubled the price, no logistical change to my program, the results would improve in terms of the amount of people that land jobs. Now I have to data proves that. Of course, >> data shows that they're going to be like, "Oh, I spent this much money. I have to make the most. I have to turn up to all the lessons, you know, all the live classes. I have to turn up." >> And it's obviously relative by people's disposable income. Some people might just, it's not important to them. They just, you know, ai here you go. Um, but yeah, I I've learned how important skin in the game is and having that that balance for for even when you have services and you're interacting with people in terms of business, it should be a mutualistic relationship. You know, I actually for someone like me, for example, who let's face it, in terms of the content creation sphere and when it comes to building my own business, as much as I want to attain certain goals and milestones, I actually don't have skin in the game. So for me the first thing that I thought about was that okay I will deliver to people in my level or I will deliver to people at a certain level because this is what is digestible for myself irregardless of what I am delivering irregardless of the value. But I actually never thought of it in the way that you said that skin in the game is something that is m mutually required >> because ultimately if someone with your portfolio and someone with your expertise and skill set if you deliver to a certain like let's say level of experience if we're going to keep it neutral and calm. The outcome you will get is not the same as somebody who has experience, who has a certain baseline of skill set and who will be able to implement the value that you are giving to a different level. >> That is why one of the highest ROIs in our program is mid-level engineers. If a midlevel engineer that is maybe two >> Oh, you mean starting the program as a mid-level and then Okay. >> Yes. One of the highest ROIs of people that join our program are mid-level engineers that might be two, three years into their career might be on a 50k salary, 6 weeks in they're on 80k. They nearly all of them have increased their salary by £30,000, £20,000 plus. And number one, they know the value of it cuz they're already in they they're already in the field, right? So there's that level of understanding that you mentioned where they have experience. So they know the value that you're offering, right? So they're like, "Oh, he's teaching me about technical tools that I'm not learning in my current job. So this is going to be valuable because I'm applying to these jobs that are asking for these skills. Okay, this is incredibly bad." But someone that's completely new doesn't know the value entirely because there's a lack of comprehension to do that. But when you've got the experience and the commercial knowledge, you could be like, "Okay, what Morad's saying is incredibly valuable. The services that he's offering is crazy. It's re it's what companies are looking for. So the highest ROI so far has been those people that actually have some experience. You know mid-level engineers give them six weeks often their salary increases by 2030,000 plus those that apply themselves. So alhamdulillah that's been crazy ROI that I've noticed and it was interesting how you touched upon when some people have that baseline they're able to digest the value that you have to offer way better than someone else that doesn't know. If I offer you gold, and I I don't know if you've seen those experiments where someone's offering people gold in the street, but they don't know it's gold. >> I've seen there's a guy in New York who does it. >> New York, right? And a lot of people like, oh, no, I don't want it. >> Like, a lot of people turn it down because they don't know he's offering them gold. It just looks like a bronze coin or it might look like, why is he handing me something? They're like, >> but if they knew it was gold, they're taking it. So, a lot of the times it's showcasing your value in a way that's digestible to others is really important. I could be sitting on a gold mine. I well the fact that I alhamdulillah won the school games and helped so many people break into the industry I technically am sitting on a gold m but if I don't showcase it in a digestible way you know if you come from a nontechnical background if you don't have a degree join my program and these are the steps you can follow to reach this end goal that's why I'm big on transparency if you go on my school page I have a 9-minute video on my school about me page before anyone purchases anything in telling everything that the program shows end to end no I don't want to deal with no buyers there's remorse. I don't want to deal with any misinformation. It's all clearly there. That's why, alhamdulillah, we have one of the lowest churns in the whole of school, which is the amount of people that leave. It's often less than 1% 3% in that region. Which is insane. >> Which is insane. >> Alhamdulillah. Cuz we focus so much on the fulfillment side, making sure people get the best possible experience, people won't leave. >> And I want to touch on that actually you've won the school games hosted by Alex Hormosi. Yes. >> In itself like a very very big milestone. Ask Allah to multiply your success. >> Can you can you take me through that journey? I'm talking about everything. I'm talking about idea of building the school community, the community that you have today, your mission statement, what happened, what was like the the the challenges. I'm like I'm going to I'm going to structure my questions much better. Don't worry. Oh, it's really >> like for me it's a very very very passionate passionate subject to see how uh people and especially brothers uh grow in their success. Subhan Allah. And especially okay this is going to sound a bit strange but I'll say it anyway. We can't for we can't predict our success or even our failures. M >> sometimes we can predict our failures or forecast them much more than success. Especially for people who have the habit of goal setting and reaching the milestone because honestly I can imagine you are the kind of person that the only satisfaction you get from reaching level three is realizing that ah this is what level four looks looks like. >> And reaching that >> even when I won the school games. Subhan Allah. >> I can imagine. I can imagine. >> And >> that day I was like, "Good work team." Okay, what's next? What's next? >> What's next, bro? Crazy. Even though it's something that was really on our eye to achieve and to attain. >> And it's insane. And I think uh maybe we should definitely take it in a bit. I just got back from Los Angeles cuz I saw uh Alexi. So, >> how was it? >> It was good. It was actually a very interesting event. It was really good seeing him in person as well. He's pretty consistent with what he is online. Um I really like his his form of delivering value and uh his consistency. You got to respect the consistency, bro. Um but yeah, it was really interesting meeting all these people. You know, there's people that have communities that are making $330,000 a month. There's people that having other communities are making ridiculous figures. Uh so meeting the fellow school games winners was really it it provided that objectivity to what I'm doing because I'm in my own bubble and I tend to block out the noise because there is a lot of noise right of oh you should do business like this or you should do business like that. A lot of the time it's people that aren't qualified right especially when you come from a corporate background it doesn't take us long to find his company house and be like >> okay all right Mr. the eight figure 8 figure entrepreneur. Sure. Like this is and a lot of the times people deliver content that sounds nice. Business is ugly. Business is boring. It's about turning up every day irrespective of how you feel. Like the content like oh you know super motivational one minute highlight reels. This is how you do business or this is the one thing that will get you to 10k a month in your business. >> Wait, every day is not a yak for you. >> Huh? >> Every day you're not in a yak. >> Is that how it is? >> What? No yacht. No yacht here, Paul. And um it's absolute nonsense. BS. Excuse my language. But >> next thing you will tell me is that you don't fly private jets. I stop the recording. >> Class is done. It's done. they they over glamorize it and glamorize entrepreneurship when, you know, historically we all know entrepreneurs are people that are, you know, completely really believed in something innovative and wanted to like prove the world wrong and had all of this stuff. Whereas now it's like, oh, you know, tomorrow you can make 10K a month with this new side hustle. Sure, mate. But don't get me wrong, some people obviously go on to be successful in areas that they apply themselves in, but it's to do with the ugly hard work. It's not a pretty thing. Um, and I try to reiterate that to to my followers. So, um, yeah, and obviously meeting Alex Mosi doing all these things was interesting. And you won't get it from that one minute highlight reel. Um, there's so many nuances with business. Well, you know, some people might say, "Oh, this is how I got to 10K a month, 50k a month." That might work for your particular audience. Your marketing tactic might not be transferable, right? If you're in a niche of Muslims and you market in a certain way that is probably not transferable to a lot of people, right? You know, the ICP is different, you know. Um, but look, I I think it's interesting in that sense, but let's go back to LA in Los Angeles. I actually went to Beverly Hills as well. I visited I was it was insane, bro. I was looking at the views. I was like, crap. >> Because Dubai is a sensory overload, right? Dubai is like, wow. And you're saying Beverly Hills is really old school money. uh completely different culture. I'm sitting with these older guys uh you know talking to them and networking with them and we were discussing really old money. A lot of them are in their 50s 60s that sort of vibe. Uh really good people. Uh but meeting people in the school games allowed me to gain that objectivity to what I'm doing uh relative to others, how I'm performing, what it looks like. And um it was amazing. It was nice to see. I feel like I gained a lot um networking perspective, value perspective. Okay. my biggest takeaway is that there's not always a golden formula and sometimes you just keep doing what you're doing. Like I don't have any inspirational words of this is the one thing I took away when I met Alex Habosi that changed my life. No, he's a normal guy like us. Um, >> we missed out on the clickbait. >> I could do it just for you. This is the one thing that I went to LA and I met Alex Hamosi and he said three words that changed my life forever. >> Tell us now. Now they will have to watch the rest of >> Okay. So, but you know what that that is a takeaway in of itself like um because >> there's one thing I did take away. >> Tell me tell me tell me. There is actually one secret. >> Okay. The one thing that I took away when I went and won the school games and visited Alex Hamozi in the HQ in LA is that business is incredibly individualistic in the sense of everyone has their own motivators. I would compromise scalability and revenue in order to maximize fulfillment. >> What does that mean? >> So I don't mind making less money. >> Okay. if it means more people are landing jobs. So there's often bottlenecks that people reach and they often talk about scalability and oh you know I'll just hire this person to do what I'm doing instead of me and I'm like my main concern is can he deliver as much value as you be I I'm so invested in making sure people are a success in my community that I'm prepared to halt scaling. I'm prepared to not make as much money. And that could go against so many people's rules of business, right? A lot of people give me advice and be like, "This is how you can scale to making more money." I'm like, "Yeah, but you know, oh, run a free trial. If you run a free trial, you're going to get loads of people joining and they're going to, you know, eventually convert and you're going to get more customers." I'm like, "Yeah, >> they will forget to cancel or >> whatever." Yeah. Whatever marketing tactic you like, right? They might forget to cancel. But I'm like, I'm concerned about the quality that happens in my community. If I'm letting loads of free trial members that have no skin in the game, what are they going to be like interacting with others in the community? Are they going to disrupt the dynamics? Are they going to be asking silly questions? Are they going to be the type of people that are going to dedicate themselves? Like I was I'm so invested in that, maintaining that 1% churn, keeping my churn incredibly low, making sure no one wants to leave the community. You know I I do exit interviews in cases have discussions with people seeing why they are leaving and a lot of people there they don't care about their churn that I met they don't fuss about it. Yeah I've got 25% churn but I make three you know >> forgive my ignorance. Uh would it be safe to say that this the the sub 1% churn is a KPI that has been of heavy focus? >> Heavy focus. >> Okay. Then a follow-up question. Um, >> which is bad for scalability. >> Which is bad for scalability because >> in a lot of ways, >> okay, >> cuz you're not experimenting. You're very worried about people's experience, their fulfillment. You're worried about driving traffic through. >> Is it necessarily always contradictory between fulfillment and scalability? >> Not always. >> But it is very hard to get both. >> It is very hard to get. >> You have to put a lot of systems and processes in place. So for example, hiring the right person, >> right? You could delegate work and hire someone that would do a mediocre job. I could hire any technical instructor to run my technical sessions. I could have done this a long time ago. But what like we have more than enough capital to do that, but what does that actually mean? Is their experience compromised? You know, in fact, one of my business partners, and this was really emotional for me, one of my business partners rejected a job at Amazon. Incredibly highpaying job. insane package that he got given as a very senior engineer at Amazon. And it was always his dream to work for a fan company, Google, Amazon. He always wanted to work for one of these companies. And it was his dream. And he went through a very difficult journey to get there. and he rejected that job at that company just so he could stay and make sure he's teaching people and make sure he has the time that he needs in order to give people the fulfillment that they need answer all their technical questions and that was really emotional for me because I was like bro don't reject that job let's look into hiring someone let's but deep down he knew and he he came to the conclusion himself and uh as much as I tried to offer alternative pathways he was like no >> I really respect that honestly >> he was bro, I'll sacrifice my dream job in order to let other people obtain their dreams. >> Allahbar. >> And that's why he's one of my business partners, incredibly selfless, brother. And that was incredibly emotional for me. >> And knowing that I'm working with people like that that have that same vision. It was really sad. Um, it still kind of eats me up to the point where wall I'd happily leave my job and run those technical sessions, but I know he wouldn't even accept it. like I'll rather leave the stuff that I have going on to make time so he can live his dream. He wouldn't even accept that. There's no point even offering him that. It's like and um yeah, we we appreciate more what you do for the community. >> May I mean not not having met the brother but I can already imagine what I see in front of >> All of that for for fulfillment. >> Yeah. You know, this is the opposite of what you hear. This is the opposite of what is being marketed and what is being even what people are calling for. You know, and I'll be very honest, this is easily a beer trap that I would fall into easily knowing Allahh is merciful upon the serpent who knows his or her limitations >> because your limitations are yourself. You know we are all sizes, colors, phenotypes, appearances, mentality and characteristics. Those are all limitations, right? So knowing our limitations is knowing ourselves. I've never had that reflection until I saw you. Seriously. >> Subhan Allah. The the literally the the blessing of valuable companionship. I pray for uh another another session of those inshallah. >> But again, I'm I'm still trying to digest it. Okay. So, all of this for fulfillment. Okay. I'm sorry for the ignorant question. >> Fulfillment is completing or adhering to the mission statement either for one's individual project or for the collective um commitment that you have given in this case. For example, the community that you are building. I think you summarize it in an amazing way. Then what is your mission? >> Amazing way >> and I think one of the KPIs that follows through that is churn. The amount of people that leave your program, right? That is probably the closest indicator that you are delivering on the promise that you made to others. A lot of people might be upset about that. A lot of people might have businesses where a lot of people are leaving their services or they might have a 20% turnover, 25, 30, 15. Truth is, churn is probably the closest indicator that you're delivering on the promise you made to others. I want to ask you. I'm going to You know what? I'm going to ask it. What what whatever your answer is going to be after the podcast, I will find out. I think I'm going to want to borrow 15 minutes of your time because honestly, this has been very eye openening for me. Subhan Allah. The the the the thoughts that are turning in my head. So, you know what? in my pseudo ADHD self. I'm going to put those aside. I'll be a bit more structured. And okay, let me ask you about your community. Uh because I've told people in Sweden about your community. Uh albeit the description of the ignorant person because I don't know much. But what I have seen Allah what I have seen other people posting honestly I can only say good things because what I have been seeing subhan Allah it's uh I can truly see the value that people have been given and what they have been doing with that and even I've I've seen your comment section on Tik Tok because let's be honest the most active platform right now is Tik Tok. Yes. >> And also the most volatile platform because this is where you would get an overabundance of support and also an overabundance of criticism. >> Not always the most qualified, but it happens. >> Yeah, it happens. >> And I've seen as well how because I'll tell you what, it's very easy to dissect content that you don't understand. Very easy. But I've also seen Subhan Allah and the the reactions that you have caused with what your community is delivering because let's face it, you're coming here telling me I don't need to have a technical background. I don't need to go through a conventional educational program that may or may not be outdated. Let's face it, it is outdated. 100% outdated of course and even will be replaced with a come on. Uh not only that I'll be able to grow my skill set, land my dream job and land a highpaying role all by joining a community where I learn from high value individuals. This sounds like a lot of work for me in a way. Also sounds too good to be true. So of course I'm going to put hatred. Of course I'm going to give you certain comments. >> But you know what the thing is? I've seen that the reactions from those have been very interesting because I've seen how other people responded and I've seen how other people stood up and said, "You don't know what you're talking about. I've actually done this. >> Yes, >> I've gone through that. >> Yes. So with that being said, I have given an ignorant description of your community. I actually want to learn more about your community and I I believe I believe everybody and you guys in Sweden have been asking me about like the how. Okay, even though we need to first establish the why, but the how of breaking into this industry and the mindset that we need to have, okay, what kind of people we need to be to achieve that carrot at the end of the journey. There is a certain community that can help us do that. >> Brother Murad, I'm going to ask you for your permission. Can you please tell us about the community? >> 100%. So, what our school community is about is the most streamlined method for you to go from zero to one and landing your first job in the tech space. It is also a streamlined method for you to elevate in your career. Whether you're a junior, mid-level, senior engineer that wants to level up, increase their salary by 20,30,000, just like Amin has, just like Nasim has. I could have it popping up everywhere, right? This is the reality. People have actually managed to achieve these salary increases and break in with salaries of 50, 60, 70, 80,000 from no technical background. Right? How we managed to achieve this is having a very thorough four-step process. Number one, pick up the technical knowledge that is needed. There's no escaping this. You have to do the hard yards. This is irrespective of whatever magic you want to be spoonfed. You have to put in the work. >> However, >> what is important is being efficient with the work you're putting in. >> You went down the LinkedIn learning route. I've done that before when I didn't know where to start, when there was no direction. Now you have a thorough tailored road map showing you exactly what you need to learn at the exact level in order to land that initial job. You could pick up and start learning everything. But how do you know what level of complexity you need to learn at? So this formula and the technical content that we've created, our technical instructors, I've filmed it, my business partners have filmed it, is from a commercial standpoint of knowledge of what you need to learn to do your job dayto-day. the MVP. >> The minimum viable product, the baseline that you need to know in order to land a job in the DevOps space, in the cloud space, >> right? So once you thoroughly go through the technical content, >> we also emphasize on building a portfolio and showcasing your skill sets. >> Okay? >> Especially in the competitive market, we make our students post three times a week on LinkedIn as a requirement. Post what you're learning about. Post what you've learned. Put yourself as an authoritative space as an expert what you're learning about. These are important things I learned about XY Z. This gives you the visibility that you need in order to get headunted in a lot of scenarios by recruiters. Focus on building that visibility within DevOps and other engineers. A hiring manager might see a project you done and that's a route for you getting head-hunted. Recruiters might see you. build that visibility so you've done the hard work and it comes with you being in a great position afterwards. A lot of people separate the journey between being job ready and learning the technical stuff. You need to merge it and focus on being job ready from the start. So everything you're learning should be documented, portfolioed, and showcased. So then you've built the right visibility for when you actually want to apply for jobs. You've got the right context. You've got the right people to outreach to. And you have a great approach. Then doing the relevant projects, doing the right projects end to end with relevant in- demand tools for the current industry. We constantly refine this. We constantly watch job specs closely. I operate as a hiring manager. So I know what I look for. This isn't a guru that isn't that's out of touch and not in the space. I operate as a hiring manager. I know what people look for when they hire. So we make sure to teach people the technical skills they need to know with of course the pragmatic elements you need to know in a production environment. How do you deal with you know security elements of what you're building for your application? How do you ensure it's secure? How do you ensure it's scalable? These are the questions you're going to get asked in the interview. And this tutorial YouTube approach is too outdated and it doesn't teach you those things that you're actually going to be asked in the interview process. That being said, we also build your CV. We provide CV reviews. Your CV gets built. This is a thorough end-to-end process. So, no matter where you're lacking across your journey, it's the perfect time to jump in. We also then do mock interviews. >> If you land an interview for a company, we also provide you with mock interviews and we thoroughly prep you and act as that mock interviewer based on the job spec, based on the company, based on their uh values. You know, we tackle culture fit elements that are important for the role. We thoroughly take someone from zero to landing a job. >> Okay. On that note, >> um just to bounce off the tangent of mock interviews. Can you if if you want to of course um can you simulate two questions two interview questions that are not not some of those like conventional interview questions >> or even one even one would suffice not necessarily it and it doesn't have to be related to the technical space. It can be more towards like describing a person's career profile or related to that niche. What would one question look like? And with someone with your experience as a hiring manager, what answer would you want to hear? What answer would wow you? >> I think we'll keep it a little technical so people can relate to it. >> Sure. >> It wouldn't be extremely technical, but this would be something that even you'd understand and would be incredibly important to you. >> It could be incredibly generic. >> How would you deal with a production outage? And I could pick a particular tool that is relevant for DevOps or you know your clusters your application. How would you deal with the scenario that your application has gone down a production >> This is extremely difficult to answer if you have no commercial experience. You've been building little projects at home and following YouTube tutorials. >> The this is where mock interviews come in really clutch cuz it allows you to actually think of okay and that's what hiring managers look for. They actually look for you to be able to hit the ground running on the job. And nowadays the industry is very cutthroat to how competitive it is. So you need to build that confidence and showcase that you know if something goes wrong what steps would you take to tackle it? >> So that's something that I'd ask someone and I'd look for a logical problem solving approach. I'd look for them to originally identify the problem. You know how would they stop the immediate bleeding that's happening? There's a production environment. things are down. This is this is a situation where the company is bleeding money. >> You know what's your first approach to do this? Even something as simple as you know contacting the right people following a IT service management protocol. You know we typical typically companies will have protocols for these and then diving into the problem and then also the remediation of the problem right even once you've solved it how can we prevent this from happening in the future you know culture around this as well. Are you someone that's going to blame someone and be like, "Oh, this person caused this. He's bad." Or do you have an approach of a no-blame culture where you're now discussing how can we prevent this in the future? What sort of monitoring can we put in place? You know, do we need to change permissions and put additional barriers? So, we have a checklist if this is going to get pushed to production. Do you need to refine your IT service management? These things are what people could talk about and understand even if they're not completely technical. And what values would it and I'm sorry to cut you off. What values would that answer communicate? >> So that answer would communicate that number one um this person has a logical problem solving approach. He has that flow, right? Where he'd be able to be pragmatic and see what he could do. Number two, it also show that he's able to work well with others and be involved with that remediation in terms of a culture perspective. If he's like, "Oh, the reason why this went down is because Ibrahim pushed some bad code and that's it." That doesn't help anything. That doesn't actually help anything. True. That doesn't improve the organization as a whole. What is your suggestion? Fire Ibrahim. No, people make mistakes. So, put the the correct processes in place. So even from a security standpoint, I'll look for terms like service control policies, which are things that you prevent people from uh being able to do things in the first place that are of concern. Why did Ibrahim have these permissions? It's not his fault. Why, if he's a junior that broke this, why does a junior have the permission to just push code here? These are the important discussions that I want to see and understand the business impact of things and see someone drive forward solutions and make suggestions even if they're wrong. I'm not looking for a perfect answer. A lot of hiring managers aren't and this is where technical people often go wrong. Understanding tradeoffs is really important. being pragmatic. uh you know if you have if you design a system and I ask you hey how would you design Discord a discord application you might choose tooling that is not optimal but if you're able to justify and consider why you'd use this over that and have a logical flow to it that builds confidence that you are someone that could take initiative and iterate over things >> because you can learn and you can be taught the correct protocol >> as long as your logic and your thinking process and your mindset is in line with your hiring manager >> because the goalpost can move. >> the goalpost can move and if you're very rigid from a technical perspective and you probably seen this and there's a new tool that you might want to adapt that adopt that's ideal and you're getting pushed back by some developers or things like that. This shows that there's a bridge there, right? So that's where you get into agile ways of working, collaboration, all of these important things that some people might just see as noise, but it's actually transformative in a work environment. So definitely I'd say a big part is um being able to kind of be agile, fluid, move with the goalpost, understand how to handle stakeholders. And these are things you don't learn through a YouTube tutorial. >> Actually, you don't. Yeah, >> you definitely don't. So that's what helps. Imagine you conducted a mock interview with me in this format. You've changed everything night and day. >> You might have learned technical things from a YouTube tutorial, but your approach now going into that interview is as if you're a seasoned engineer. This takes me to my next logical question here, which is because I'm being asked a lot about people who want to land similar roles with if we're if we're digging into the deeper layer. The reason why is >> it's like it's like this video. Yeah. Yeah. >> That's my audience, bro. >> Floss. >> Well, besides the fellows, >> uh, many people want the plane as well because they want >> I'm going to be honest with you. I was when I was in Sweden 7 weeks recently. >> One thing I keep hearing keep hearing all the time is that people want to move. People want to if some people want to leave a certain demographic of people they don't want to stay in that environment. They want to move to other environments where they can reach their potential or even over exceed their potential. >> I'm going to tell you a secret. >> Tell me a secret. It's going to be by the way. >> I have a passport that lets me work from anywhere in the world. meaning >> that lets me work from anywhere. >> It's not the passports that you're thinking. >> Exactly. >> It's not a Singapore passport. It's not one of the strongest passports in the world. It's a skill set >> which is >> my tech stack and my ability to implement and provide value to companies that is a passport that you could use anywhere >> because you could move from company to company and you can provide if not even more value >> and you can land fully remote jobs. They don't mind you working anywhere in the world if you're incredibly valuable. Honing your skill set is as if you're making your passport stronger. Gaining the right experience, honing your skill set, it's as if you're strengthening your passport. Companies are willing to sponsor you from anywhere in the world. That completely mitigates a lot of the barriers that people experience. Visa, this that I'm able to land a job from pretty much anywhere, >> anywhere that I'd want to. considering time zones if I'm able to make it work I'm able to work from anywhere that is the ultimate passport you know subhan Allah even though a lot of the the the conversation that we have been having and also the because the skill set that you are providing in your community and your subject matter expertise is is of technical volume. But subhan Allah, somehow you managed to what you what you said and and I'm thinking from the very start of the of the podcast >> and until now and I and I know it will continue inshallah. >> This is something that is applicable across industries because what you're saying makes perfect sense. Let's say I I am someone who works in the financial sector. Yes. >> Or I work in a very different industry. I need to strengthen my skill set passport. >> And the stronger skill set passport I have, the more I can move. >> 100%. >> Subhan Allah. I've never heard that before. >> What does that look like? What does it look like for someone who I was just going to ask you and say, "What is your advice for somebody who wants to move from country A to country B?" I need to ask you a much better question. >> How do I strengthen my skills at passport? So this is where you got to start taking initiative as it's something that is transferable depending on the industry you're in. Okay. Right. What I did to really strengthen my skill set password number one have that proactive approach to learning. So I actively monitored different job specs. I actively looked at jobs even when I was nowhere near ready for them. I was a junior less than a year into my career and I filtered out jobs that were only six figure salaries. Only six figure salaries because that was my end goal. How do I get to a six figure salary? I obtained a common denominator of tool sets that those companies are using. Oh, this is getting incredibly popular. All the leading companies are using this tool, that tool. This is a common denominator across all these jobs that are paying six figures. Okay, let me take these tools and extrapolate real world projects, try and create an environment where I can showcase the skill sets when it is time to interview for those companies. So, by having that close relationship and that is transferable whether you're working in finance and multiple areas know what is in demand in particular regions. I even upskilled in areas that are not transferable to the UK. You know, learning about Alibaba cloud, this is only really applied in Saudi. No one uses this in the UK. learning a cloud technology and a skill set I can't even apply for really in the UK. Okay. >> So, taking these initiatives and driving forward those uh you know proactive elements to learning is what really helped me be job ready for different job markets and I had a very targeted approach. I made sure I was technically ready and then I made sure I was very targeted with my applications and I exhausted it. Wall I had my alarm. I was waking up at 5:00 a.m. to apply for jobs in the UAE because of the time zone difference so I could outreach to recruiters just when they wake up cuz that was when I noticed they were most active. Like I going back to that philosophy of doing a ridiculous amount of work in which it is unreasonable to have failure as an outcome that is transferable in everything you do that like whether you're trying to break into tech, whether you're trying to become a senior or trying to make a six figure salary. If you study six to eight hours a day, the intermar tools, generate projects around them, prep yourself, start outreaching to recruiters every day for hours, create videos of yourself when you're outreaching, having a different approach, web scraping their phone calls, messaging them on WhatsApp. If you have an aggressive approach and exhaust every avenue, the odds of you not landing a job off their ear is unheard of. >> That's what you mean by the the odds of you not succeeding are unreasonable, right? >> Unreasonable. that Allahbar >> the outcome of failure is so unreasonable >> because it's about the work you put in. >> The work you put in >> it don't like I haven't seen that problem. Very few people have come to me with that problem. Morad, I've done this. I've done that. I've done this. There's always gaps. There's always areas they're missing. There's always areas they could optimize. I've rarely seen anyone optimize things end to end and turn up every day for a long period of time and not gain results. Unheard of. It's like when people tell you they're out of shape, you know? How many people have you seen that have dieted, calorie counted, thoroughly, meal prepped, gone gym 5 days a week, had a thorough workout plan, did this consistently for 3 years, and built no muscle mass. Impossible. >> It makes no sense. >> Makes no sense. >> So, people have this irrational mentality that, oh, you know, I'm just going to I'm unlucky or this. No, you're not unlucky. You're doing things wrong. You're not breaking into the industry because you're going about Yes, it's more competitive. Yes, your genetics might not be as cohesive to muscle growth. Yes. But if you put in a unreasonable amount of work, the outcome of failure in itself is incredibly unreasonable. >> How important is networking and growing your network in terms of the putting into the work and how does that look like? >> Essential because then you're not exhausting all the avenues. If if you're not exhausting every avenue that could lead to success, then that means you're not putting in the level of work that's needed. So, for example, I was outreaching. I optimized my CV. I was doing loads of different areas. So, there was many ways that I could have reached that end goal of being able to relocate. It could have been a recruiter looked at my CV and thought it was great when I submitted it on the website. It could have been I outreached and the recruiter really liked a video that I sent him about why I'm a great fit for the role. It could have been the reason why I web scraped the recruiter's WhatsApp number. A WhatsApp is very commonly used in this region and I took that initiative to send them a clear message or a hiring manager and send them my portfolio and the hiring manager liked the project that I did that related to the job spec and I made sure to send him that project that was relevant to this. So many different avenues were exhausted. It could have been any reason. A lot of people ask me how do I get into tech always very high level. They want an oversimplified answer. You're not doing enough work. That's the simple answer. You're not doing enough work. Cuz if you exhausted all the avenues, the pathway is clear. Eventually something will work. Something will give way. I think Subhan Allah. And this is just thinking out loud. Could be could be right on some, could be wrong on some. And I want to hear your honest thoughts. I think we what we need to do is we need to stop being humble with our goals and we need to have like unreasonable goals literally. If my goal is merely to relocate to country X or to place X or to land a role at a certain place unless it is we're talking about something super spectacular, >> I don't think I will be as motivated to put in as much work. But if my goal is like unreasonably like stupidly big >> right now I think and I'm thinking out loud for myself now maybe someone should have a goal to say you know what I want to be in a position where I don't just go applying for jobs left and right I want to be headunted >> I actually want to be headed >> yeah I never want to apply again >> yeah I don't want to apply >> it's very feasible Okay. >> LinkedIn. >> LinkedIn. How how how should I how should I handle what should my LinkedIn look like? >> Number one, you should have a professional headsh shot on your profile. >> Listen to this. >> Clean professional headsh shot, right? And then your headline should be directly cohesive to what recruiters will search for. >> Bro, I'm so sorry. I just for some reason I heard hairline and I was like my hairline. It's okay. Alhamdulillah. Is the hairline okay? >> Alhamdulillah. You're all good, bro. >> You're all good. >> The headline, tell me about it. >> So, first of all, professional headshot on your LinkedIn. Then, your headline has to be very clear and cohesive to what recruiters will search for when you're applying for jobs, right? So, when they're head-hunting you. So, if your headline says DevOps engineer, that increases the likelihood of recruiters searching for that particular title and reaching out to you. Your title at work may be different. You may have an internal title, but be intelligent enough to make sure your headline is clear and reflective of the role that you're doing and the role that you want. So, your headline is incredibly important. That's how you're going to get filtered out. Next, your about about section. It needs to be clear what you're about, clear what your motivators are, clear what you've achieved, and a nice summary about you. That should be enough to attract a recruiter. Understand that recruiters relationships with a candidate is mutualistic. People see recruiters as the gatekeepers to jobs. And it can be the case where the door is locked for many of you, but then for those correct candidates, the door is wide open. How much do you want? How can we negotiate? How can we get you through the door? I've got the red carpet for you. Right? A recruiter's relationship with a candidate is incredibly mutualistic. If you're a good fit for that role, but it's about showcasing that you're a good fit. So, that about section is very important. Your experience, your experience should clearly highlight what you've achieved and what you've done at that particular company. It's a great way to throw in certain tools that you're using that's in bond and things like that. And then of course any certifications, recommendations is really good. Now don't get me wrong, that little reason might not be why you got hired, but having that thorough, you know, LinkedIn profile end to end and if you've got like 10,000 plus followers on LinkedIn, the odds of you not getting headunted for roles is unheard of. Again, I always give the unreasonable outcome. unreasonable outcome. If you've got 10,000 plus followers on LinkedIn, you've posted three times a week, you've got that clear headline, that professional photo, it might take you two years to build a following of 10,000. But if you post three times a week on LinkedIn for 2 years, you will get there. If you refine that content, make sure it's informative. If you're engaging with the right people in the comment section, if you're engaging with the right hiring managers about what they're doing at that company, maybe they don't have a role now. Maybe you've just developed a relationship with someone that is a hiring manager in Dubai in Saudi and maybe the day where that role opens up that's how you get head-hunted. >> That's how I actually got my first role in Qatar. >> The first job offer that I got in Qatar, I maintained a very good relationship with a particular hiring manager. We were just talking about work, things that they do dayto-day and he said, "Look, I'll keep you in mind if any roles pop up." Six kns later, I get a message. Subhan Allah. randomly. Of course, >> building report is key. >> Building report is key. >> Building report is key. But you have to also showcase yourself as you have that exchange of value. No one likes a leech. No one likes a leech. >> What does that mean? No one likes a leech. >> So, this is where people get networking wrong. And I want to dive into this topic of networking. >> Tell me, please, please do it. The floor is yours. >> People think networking is meeting this random millionaire or billionaire that's like, "Oh, I see myself in you. I'm going to take you under my wing and teach you everything you need to do to be a millionaire. >> Yeah. Salam. I That's what I thought. >> What you're looking for is a handout. You are a leech. You're not looking for an exchange of value. You haven't built anything. And what you need to do from a mentorship perspective is different because of course on LinkedIn you should reach out to people, right? So it's not contradictive. You should gain information you need in order to get better at what you do. So you have that exchange of value. Networking in that capacity is correct. That is how you network. You network to obtain information to improve yourself and offer an exchange of value. If you have a service you think is beneficial for people, of course, that is how you network. But this concept of I've got nothing going for me. I've just rolled out of bed. I'm going to go to this networking event and who knows, I might meet the person that is going to hire me and be like, "Hey, you, Ibraim, I like your beard. You're a great fit." >> Yo, great fit. Come join my company. I need a new CTO. That's not happening. Well, come join my company. I'm going to give you X amount of money. >> I'm just going to adjust my goal list, >> No, but look, you mentioned something really important about your story earlier where you were actually talking to someone. They're like, "Oh, we have this sort of role available. We're looking for someone that has X skill. What did you go and do? you went back and mastered X skill so you're ready and you can showcase the value that you have in order to have that exchange so you can get hired. If he just said we need someone that has X skill or you don't know it, oh fine, let's hire you. What you're looking for is a handout. You are a leech. >> You didn't put in any of the groundwork in order to provide that. So how I think networking is the most effective is building value. Focus on building value first and then you could provide that exchange of value to open new doors, relocate abroad, things like that. But you can network initially even if you have no value to gain insights and gain information. That's what happened to me. But if you're looking for handouts, it's not the place. Everyone's super conscious of people that are leeching around them. That's the one thing people are conscious of when they're very successful. Before I move to the next segment, uh if you're comfortable sharing that, of course, could you tell us about and I'm I'm sure and by the way, Allah, I am very sure a thousand% sure that if I was to ask you from for to give us a success story from your community, I'm sure it and right now the clocks are ticking and like you don't even know which one to pick. If you were to pick one like on no in no specific order, >> Yeah. just one that comes to mind. Can you share with us a success story that will inspire the listeners of the Baraka Blueprints? >> So many, but I'm going to start off with one. >> There's one success story that even changed the way I viewed breaking into tech. >> This success story changed the way that I saw breaking into the industry. This person's called okay joined our program and he managed to get a job offer after 6 weeks. That is the fastest rate I've ever seen anyone be able to land a job. >> You did it for 3 months. >> Wait, wait, wait. I need to give context. >> Oh, okay. Okay, okay, there's more. >> He's 19. No technical background, >> no degree. He was working in the NHS. >> He was traveling two hours to work, two hours back. He had a 4hour daily commute. He was working a 9 to5 at the same time plus 4hour daily commute. And he managed to land a job offer within 6 weeks. >> 6 weeks. >> Six weeks. I didn't even know that was possible. I thought this was unheard of. In fact, when he first got the interview, I had that in the back of my mind. And I was like, "This will be good interview experience for you. This will be good interview experience for you." Like I didn't even fathom that he could land a role in in this sort of period of time. And they were asking for a skill set. He he learned a bunch of skills in the program, but he's only halfway through. They're asking for some skills that you reach on week 12. They're asking for skills that he hasn't even learned yet. And he says, "Okay, I'll go with the interview. I'll go for it." We spent that weekend crash course teaching him those additional skills, precipitating him in advance, unlocking the later modules for him for him to prep accordingly for that interview. And he went in and he smashed it. >> And it's a really emotional story because no one knows the work behind behind the scenes. >> My business partner was at in Turkey at the time. There was a time zone difference, right? 4 hours roughly time zone I believe and he was up at 2:00 a.m. 3:00 a.m. prepping him for like a lot of the technical questions. I then prepped him for technical he had two hours prep with me. There was like 3 hours prep from my business partners. We prepped him multiple times and was getting him th this is all just to make sure he had a good shot at this role. And if you don't believe me, whoever's in my community, everything's recorded. You could just go to the classroom section, check when Kais had his interview and check the preps that we gave him. It's documented. Everything that I say is listed with a ridiculous amount of evidence. He managed to land a job offer within 6 weeks. I couldn't believe it. That was a shocking one cuz I often get objections from people. I don't have enough time. I don't have this. I can't commit. I can't do what what if I'm working a 9 to5? How long is it going to take me? The fact that he managed to do that was insane. Whilst working a 9 to5, whilst traveling a 4hour daily commute, whatever excuse people have, I don't want to hear it. I don't want to hear any of it. He sacrificed sleep cuz he was studying at night. That's the only time he had to study. >> He was studying at night. He was waking up 6:00 a.m. 5:00 a.m. He was sleeping at 2:00. He he averaged 4 hours of sleep for 6 weeks at best. 4 hours of sleep a day. So it was just incredible to me. And that's what changed my perception cuz I often used to feel for people a lot more when people used to say, "Oh, I'm really busy. Oh, can I do this? I've got a 9 to5. I don't know if I could apply. Oh, it's too much time." Or, "I haven't got the time. I've got this. I've got wife. I've got kids." I'll be honest. If you're willing to apply yourself, make sacrifices, people are ready to sleep less for that position. People are ready to sacrifice so much. He was just going to work. Espresso is surviving, figuring it out cuz he was so obsessed with reaching that goal and putting in the work that was needed. He didn't feel sorry for himself. He would have continued that. I tell you, I know he would have continued that approach for 9 months. If it took him a year, two years, he would have stuck at it. He had that sort of mentality and approach which is often hard to have because with that shiny object syndrome, people don't see the actual work that's come from it and behind the scenes. So is a big one. >> Big success. May Allah bless >> and those that are going through the same pathway as >> a mean subhah. Um this for me I'm I'm thinking back to when I was 19 subhah even know but um it's this is very interesting to hear because number one and you you nailed it when you said shiny object syndrome. Subhan Allah. Because we are so fixated with comparing what we see behind the screens, you know, because social media is a disease in so many ways that you see something, you see a certain person that reaches like m let's not say it's fake. Let's assume this is real. Let's assume what you're seeing is real. Yes, this person the success that he's living is real >> because there are some that are faking and some people are living real. But like you said, subh, you don't know the work that went behind this. So it's very easy. The pain. >> Yeah. The pain, the struggle. You >> get the work, the pain, the mental health, >> the rejection, the loss. >> The loss. >> Do you watch anime? >> Have you watched anime? >> Uh, I am trying to. >> I have a for my anime lovers out there. >> There's a particular scene >> and this is in an anime called One Piece. There's a particular scene where the whole crew has been destroyed. The captain's got beaten up. Everyone's got destroyed, right? And there's like this second in command called Zoro. >> Allahhna >> swordsman. >> Mr. Swordsman with the three swords. >> He's with the three swords. >> And he saw all his crew get wiped out. Got beaten up. Got wiped out. And this person that wiped out the crew was like, "Yeah, now I'm going to finish you lot off properly." And he said, "Don't take my captain's head. Take mine." >> And I want and I want you to dive into this. He said, "Take my head." And he could have easily just finished him there. He said, "No." He's like, "I want you to take the captain's pain." And what he did was extracted the pain out of the captain that he went through that you got beaten up, destroyed all of this. And he said, "If you could take this pain that came out in a bubble, if you could take this, then that's it. You know, I'll leave you here. You just take the exact pain that he's going through." And it was like this massive bubble. He extracted a little bubble and he threw it on tiny little bubble. And as soon as it hit him, blood started squirting out everything. He was getting like this tiny bit of pain destroyed him. The reason why it resonated so much with me is you don't even know the pain someone has gone through. And sometimes sacrifice could seem easy. Oh yeah, I'll sacrifice myself. No. Are you willing to go through the pain? When people get obsessed with certain end goals, even to do with my community. They're like, "Oh, you won the school games. I want to build a community to win the school games." I did 16our days for a long period of time. I stayed up. I ran mock interviews. I ran technical sessions. I replied to everyone's DMs. I could pull out any time. I have 500 members in my school community. I could pull out any time on my phone. There'll be less than five active DMs where I've replied for and I'm always replying to people. I'm obsessed with, you know, it the pain that it took to get here. People don't know, right? People do not know. And that's what that scene made me realize. I was like, he gave him this little bit of pain and that nearly finished him in itself. And then he took the entire pain and what happened is scene cuts. You don't know what happened. And then the crew eventually wake up cuz they've been knocked out at this point. They all got knocked out. They wake up and he's just standing there and there's blood all around him. All around him. A circle of just a pool of blood and he's still standing just like this. And then they say, "What happened?" He said, "Nothing." He said, "Nothing happened." That scene resonates with me to this day. You know what? Okay, I know you guys have been telling me this for a very long time. I'll start watching One Piece. Kalas, I get it. Our brother has So, that's it. It's sealed. Here we go. It's done. Yeah. Salam. I've always like I'm starting but I don't continue to the next episode. I'm still stuck in the very very very very very very very beginning. I am not going to embarrass myself and to say where I am. So cut scene. >> The anime is incredibly longwinded nowadays. >> But I did watch Attack on Titan. >> Probably learned a lot from that. >> I learned a lot from that >> politics. >> And when I when I watched the Arabic one. Oh >> Allah >> better. >> Yeah. What? The the the the speech the speech before the charge. >> Yeah. Oh, the charge. The charge in Arabic. That's crazy. >> Oh my good god. >> Yeah. The charge in Arabic. Yeah. I need to go back watch that, >> man. I'm going to I'm going to rewatch it now afterwards. >> No, 100%. uh brother Murad, the final question I want to ask you before moving to a quick fire round um is regarding the the importance of balance. Yahiba blueprint has one mission statement which is and this is based on a personal story and based on a personal journey. If you become friends with the Quran, Allah subhana wa tala will preserve you. Allahh says in the Quran, "Verily, we are the ones who sent down the scripture and verily we are the ones who will be preserving it." The Quran is preserved and the tongue that is connected to the Quran will of course be preserved and the heart that is connected to the Quran will be preserved and the intellect that is connected to the Quran will be preserved. So if you become friends with the Quran, Allah subhana wa ta'ala will you do good acts, you do good, Allah will give you a good life. Now this is a wide spectrum a good life and God almighty he he's not he doesn't owe you anything. So he doesn't owe you this goodness. >> Yes. So the person who connects himself to Allah subhana wa ta'ala will see goodness in whatever he gets. >> So and also like the one of the taglines is balancing between faith and focus. We have talked a lot about the focus and the key key. My question to you Yahhabib in whichever capacity you're willing to share of course how has your journey in terms of the balance been and what advice can you give to people who want to take a similar pathway as yours. So my journey in regards to balance, it hasn't existed as an entire thing and what people imagine as balance. It hasn't been very So the thing that about my journey that people get confused is oh it was very balanced. No, there was periods of imbalance to obtain balance. I had to go through periods of imbalance when I first wanted to break in. It depends what you're optimizing for. I first wanted to break into tech. What did that mean? That means I had to spend late evenings, late nights studying, learning how to program, learning about cloud, learning these things because I was in a period where I wanted to obtain balance cuz my life wasn't balanced. So I had to go through that period of imbalance to gain balance. Once I obtained that remote job, things were more balanced. Once I was able to work from home, my life became more balanced. So I often had to lock in in periods and have periods of imbalance in order to gain balance later on. So that's been my philosophy around balance. I also have a threshold in a lot of areas that I make sure I don't dip below whether that is spiritually, religion, all of these different areas. You know, if I'm optimizing for this right now, >> of course, this isn't going to increase, but how can I maintain it >> for this period of time? What framework systems can I put in place to maintain it? >> What actions am I doing? am I still giving to charity and I'm still cuz that doesn't decrease from your wealth as you know you know all of these sort of things are not things that take away >> all of these things don't really take away so and it was a very private thing cuz I went through a lot of doubts regarding my sincerity of things >> okay >> so what I constantly exercised and I think is pretty much the only way I don't know if you have any advice on this I'd love to hear your thoughts but being the person you are in private and doing a lot of good deeds in private. And when you mentioned that relationship with the Quran, it really hit me. Doing these things constantly in private when no one's around is how you remain sincere. It's how you obtain sincerity. Cuz I could say something really nice on a podcast, right? I could quote things. I could say things when we leave the door. Who are we? Who are we when no one's looking? So doing a lot of actions in private allowed me to really self-reflect and try and obtain a level of sincerity which does impact me in content elements. And I remember opening up to you about this. Like I'm very often hesitant to talk about religion online. You know, I question myself, is this a way of me funneling people in? You know, are people going to now trust me for the wrong reasons? Are people going to be like, "Oh, this guy's a Muslim brother. I'm going to trust him. I'm going to buy his course. Are they now going to forget to do the due diligence? Are they going to check my Trust Pilot reviews? Are they going to contact previous students? Are they going to do their real due diligence that they need? or are they going to fall into thing out of trust and and things like that? So, that's been a big part of my my journey to to getting where I am as well. And that leads off to me kind of concluding on staying true to myself, staying true to myself, blocking out the noise, and being consistent with my work. And goes back to what I said. I did do an unreasonable amount of work where winning the school games was a byproduct. The things that I did was a byproduct. all of these people landing jobs was a byproduct. So that was a big part of my philosophy and I went through those locking periods to gain balance later on. Alhamdulillah and it ends purely and it ends in good fragrance. I have a few quickfire questions in Swedish. When I I used to have a podcast before called competent spot then in Swedish where this was like what way back in 2018 2019. >> It ended around the pandemic year and we used to interview people uh in in the Muslim community in Sweden with all like professions and competencies and skills. >> Uh audio only. Uh, but it was it was it was a fun project and the tagline was quick questions but not necessarily quick answers. So, I've prepared a few >> uh and I'd love to hear your thoughts. >> So, first one is what is the best networking icebreaker? >> That's such an interesting question. You know, that's actually the one thing I always hated in the corporate world. >> Really? Okay. That is that was my nightmare of having to do ice breakers or even a doctor. You know, you know when you have that morning meeting on a Monday. >> What did you do over the weekend? >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. >> They had such interesting stories. I went hiking. I did this. I'm like, bro, I just played football. You know, like when you grow up from >> 6:30, >> but he wasn't allowed to leave work. >> I wasn't allowed to leave work. Yeah. It's really interesting how um my favorite icebreaker car I think the two truths one lie. >> Have you played that? >> Yes, I have. Yeah, I I think I think that's one of my favorite ice breakers cuz a it allows people to get to know about you because you're stating some truths and a lie in terms of it shows how people kind of perceive you cuz if they believe that that lie is the truth means like it's probably something very believable to them. So it shows their perceptions of you and it's also a great way to get to know each other. So that's probably my my most interesting icebreaker. >> What is the most difficult interview question they have ever ever been asked? Oh, I would never say a technical question has been that difficult. >> Cuz it's something you could always learn. >> I think the most difficult question was the why. So if I was asked why I have done some something and why I have implemented something that used to sometimes really get to me because when you're working in silo consultancies sometimes you've just been delegating this piece of work and you have to do it and someone catches you out it's like why did you do it and you're like >> my manager gave it to me you know and it's just not a justification in an interview. So that's one thing where I was like when I was more junior I used to kind of hate um I think yeah I'd say that is probably like the earlier qu now I kind of enjoy interviews it's just a conversation for me I I enjoy interviews personally now at this moment it's this point in my career I guess it comes with the passport right >> it does come with the passport >> you know what you know your if your skills are not appreciated by this company be appreciated elsewhere so interviews are a different experience when you've got that passport that spoke about mashallah. What is the worst advice that you've heard in tech? >> Be yourself. >> Worst advice. >> Worst advice is be yourself. >> I think it's the worst advice to tell someone to be themselves in a lot of areas, but particularly in the tech industry and the corporate world because yourself just might not be accepted. It might not be good enough in certain areas and it could often just be a higher level generic way without having any tangible things to improve on. So just telling someone, hey, just be yourself in this interview. No, understand their culture. Understand what makes you a culture. Be very, you know, sort of driven in in terms of trying to, you know, land this role. Understand what people are like. So this whole be yourself thing I think could actually be dangerous advice because if yourself is something that is controversial or you know causing a lot of disturbance in terms of politics or things like that maybe you need to keep that out of the workplace. Maybe you need to be less of yourself if yourself is someone that is problematic to others. >> What's the most underrated skill in tech? >> Soft skills. Okay. >> 100%. What is >> communication? Why is it underrated? For like for me and by from my own ignorance, I'm thinking this is like common sense. Of course, Annie, it's there. But is it really that underrated? >> It's very underrated. The more technical roles are. >> So, people often dive into, oh, I could use this tool or I know this technical thing. Well, if your communication isn't clear to break it down to stakeholders and why they should adopt it, no one cares. What's your advice to someone who is stuck on a dead end job? >> If you're stuck on a dead end job, there has to be a level of accountability. How did you get there in the first place? Now, once you acknowledge that accountability, you know, you haven't been doing what you need to do. You failed in previous areas. Because no one just applies to a dead-end job tomorrow. There's often things where they've dropped out of school. They haven't achieved the right grades. And there's often a big mental shift that needs to be done. Now, once you acknowledge that and you want to make a move, I'd look to particular industries and roles that might not require certain barriers, such as a degree. Right? If you're now in a dead-end job and you have no degree, typically you're in a dead-end job for those reasons. You should seek opportunities that don't have those sort of barriers of entry and allows you to be meritocratic. So once you pick that end goal, whether that is tech, an industry like tech, whether that is you're going into DevOps, cyber, whatever niche you want to specialize in and work towards that goal and put a ridiculous amount of work and don't be entitled. A lots of people have a dead-end job and they also get comfortable in a dead-end job, especially if they've been able to make it work and really be ready to put in that work and have that end goal and put in an unreasonable amount of work, whether that's one years, two, it doesn't need to be 3 months, it doesn't need to be six months. You could have these goals and you could try your best, but what does that mean if you don't land the job in the six month mark? Do you give up? one of my greatest students that landed a job. He managed to land a senior DevOps role for his first job, a senior position for his first job, but it took him 9 months. He experienced constant rejection. He got rejected by junior roles. He got rejected by mid-level roles. And the one that actually eventually gave him an offer was a senior position. >> Came from no technical background because he consistently put that workload in. When he got rejected there, he didn't just stop there. He started still doing more projects and then after that period of time where he completed all those projects he started specializing in niches and built a niche expertise that when he showcased it to those seniors they highly valued it and he got you don't know where your risk is written. You don't know where your pathway to success is. It might be the conventional. He probably thought, "Oh, I'm going to break in as a junior, a year later be a mid-level, and then a few years later be a that's what he probably believed when he started, but because he put a ridiculous amount of work. The outcome's there. So, exhaust those avenues. Have that end goal and put in that work. Inshallah, I'm sure if you have that done, that you won't be disappointed. You won't be. If you were able to send a WhatsApp voice note to every young Muslim man, what would you say? Ignore the noise. Get a main hustle before a side hustle. I think that would be it. Very short. What is your Baraka blueprint? >> What a way to end this amazing conversation. Brother Murad, it has been a pleasure. It has been an honor. May Allah multiply your reward. Thank you for the lessons that you taught me and I pray that more and more and more people benefit from the that you're given. May Allah bless your path to success, bless your wealth, bless your health and grant you a place in paradise among the prophets, the companions and the doers of >> and yeah I'm keeping your m